https://rotorwayforums.com/ Tue, 15 Sep 2026 07:28:12 +0000 MyBB https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-240.html Wed, 09 Sep 2026 18:42:09 -0500 Homer Bell]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-240.html This ship was built in Fla. I hauled it to California over ten years ago where it was finished and I actually did a first hover in his back yard. I don’t think it ever flew much there. Then it went to Texas and did fly a get bit there I think. This ship went thru two owners and this thing had these issues till the end.
Right now , I have a ship that had videos of it doing a short flight and declared ready to go. It actually had bolts in the cyclic control that didn’t have nuts on them.

If you buy a ship and you don’t know for sure what’s in side, especially the controls , better check it out really good.]]> This ship was built in Fla. I hauled it to California over ten years ago where it was finished and I actually did a first hover in his back yard. I don’t think it ever flew much there. Then it went to Texas and did fly a get bit there I think. This ship went thru two owners and this thing had these issues till the end.
Right now , I have a ship that had videos of it doing a short flight and declared ready to go. It actually had bolts in the cyclic control that didn’t have nuts on them.

If you buy a ship and you don’t know for sure what’s in side, especially the controls , better check it out really good.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-238.html Mon, 07 Sep 2026 18:59:58 -0500 Jim Hardy]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-238.html https://hardy-field.com/  I have to fill my tank soon.  Sure hoping price will drop soon!   


  MGC2026 Brief.pdf (Size: 8.03 MB / Downloads: 4) ]]> https://hardy-field.com/  I have to fill my tank soon.  Sure hoping price will drop soon!   


  MGC2026 Brief.pdf (Size: 8.03 MB / Downloads: 4) ]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-237.html Sun, 06 Sep 2026 12:44:42 -0500 Sam Oliver]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-237.html
 I'm building an A600 from two incomplete kits.   The construction factory videos are made with a much earlier setup so they don't help.   The factory construction manual, specifically Section 15 dated Jan 2017 Page 4, Photo #5 starts the process by asking me to refer to Print E49-8600 and card E49 Card 3T, which I do not have (did not come with my set of documents when I purchased this kit from RotorX prior to them folding.   I appear to have the actual parts, minus the "Tension relief block tool (E49-8681) that are shown in the construction manual.   

Does anybody have a pdf or photo of the construction card and factory drawing the instructions referenced--Print E49-8600 and card E49 Card 3T?
A photo of the tension relief block tool along side a ruler would help.  If it's just an installation tool, Maybe something I could fabricate?

Thanks
Sam]]>
 I'm building an A600 from two incomplete kits.   The construction factory videos are made with a much earlier setup so they don't help.   The factory construction manual, specifically Section 15 dated Jan 2017 Page 4, Photo #5 starts the process by asking me to refer to Print E49-8600 and card E49 Card 3T, which I do not have (did not come with my set of documents when I purchased this kit from RotorX prior to them folding.   I appear to have the actual parts, minus the "Tension relief block tool (E49-8681) that are shown in the construction manual.   

Does anybody have a pdf or photo of the construction card and factory drawing the instructions referenced--Print E49-8600 and card E49 Card 3T?
A photo of the tension relief block tool along side a ruler would help.  If it's just an installation tool, Maybe something I could fabricate?

Thanks
Sam]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-236.html Sat, 05 Sep 2026 08:40:10 -0500 Homer Bell]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-236.html You must probably store parts if you want them to be any good years down the road. Rust and corrosion can destroy new parts that aren’t kept on a good environment.
These blades were so old they needed the doublers glued up and all the rivet mods done. The trading skin had the plastic on them and was perfect under that. The spar had some corrosion, but no use really seeing how bad it was after we found the bad patch near the end.
Properly stored these would be worth over $10k today.
If you have parts, better pull them out and check their conditions. If your buying parts that the seller says are new, better check them out before you determine price. May be worth nothing except junk price. I allowed the owner some money on these for a new set.
I once built up a mock up EXEC that went on Christine Onassis yacht hotel in Rotterdam, Netherlands .
If you go to
Her website you can probably still see sitting on the helipad. So that’s what these may be used for , yard ornaments.]]> You must probably store parts if you want them to be any good years down the road. Rust and corrosion can destroy new parts that aren’t kept on a good environment.
These blades were so old they needed the doublers glued up and all the rivet mods done. The trading skin had the plastic on them and was perfect under that. The spar had some corrosion, but no use really seeing how bad it was after we found the bad patch near the end.
Properly stored these would be worth over $10k today.
If you have parts, better pull them out and check their conditions. If your buying parts that the seller says are new, better check them out before you determine price. May be worth nothing except junk price. I allowed the owner some money on these for a new set.
I once built up a mock up EXEC that went on Christine Onassis yacht hotel in Rotterdam, Netherlands .
If you go to
Her website you can probably still see sitting on the helipad. So that’s what these may be used for , yard ornaments.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-234.html Sat, 29 Aug 2026 13:09:39 -0500 Lyle Swallows]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-234.html
a few of my Favorites:
1. Chickenhawk
2. 71 Lessons from the sky
3. 9 lives of a bush pilot
4. down to a sunless sea
5. wings over alaska
6. N4 down
7. (a few bell 47 Alaskan/Canadian books) the titles are escaping me...

not all are helicopter related and there's no order of fashion there.
i feel like Orv should write a book at this point with all his amazing posts!]]>
a few of my Favorites:
1. Chickenhawk
2. 71 Lessons from the sky
3. 9 lives of a bush pilot
4. down to a sunless sea
5. wings over alaska
6. N4 down
7. (a few bell 47 Alaskan/Canadian books) the titles are escaping me...

not all are helicopter related and there's no order of fashion there.
i feel like Orv should write a book at this point with all his amazing posts!]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-214.html Mon, 24 Aug 2026 19:45:14 -0500 Homer Bell]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-214.html

---

Tada! I logged out then came back and it went. Now all I have to do is learn how to post pics and stuff.
Oh, and someone explain the subscribe options to me please.

---

Ok, I have a question for the group. Have a customer trying to put Saturn packs on his 90 to replace the Electromotive packs it had. Not getting any spark even though it appears to be wired right, from where I sit. I can remember what voltage is coming off the crank sensors. If we hook up a digital meter to the sensor leads and crank it over, what should we see? Al Yard could tell us I’m sure, I’ll have to try and get hold of him.]]>

---

Tada! I logged out then came back and it went. Now all I have to do is learn how to post pics and stuff.
Oh, and someone explain the subscribe options to me please.

---

Ok, I have a question for the group. Have a customer trying to put Saturn packs on his 90 to replace the Electromotive packs it had. Not getting any spark even though it appears to be wired right, from where I sit. I can remember what voltage is coming off the crank sensors. If we hook up a digital meter to the sensor leads and crank it over, what should we see? Al Yard could tell us I’m sure, I’ll have to try and get hold of him.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-212.html Mon, 24 Aug 2026 15:30:29 -0500 Homer Bell]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-212.html Shot 13 autos with the red headed grandson over the weekend . We’re using the composite blades I’ve been running for last few years. We’re playing with negative pitch settings, rotor speeds in the steady state, flare height, and airspeeds to name a few things we are testing. Started some at 400 ft. all the way up to 1000 ft, with some doing a left turn after chopping power. He’s becoming very comfortable with the entry and then making changes during the steady state to get a good end result. I’d post some video here , but I have no idea how to do that here. He showed me how to do that on FB, but we never got around to that here. As I said this is the only place I can find to even start a thread, let alone post a video!
And what the hell is all this subscribe stuff???

---

Patience wearing very thin. Tried to post more stuff to discussion. No good. Quitting for now Wasted too much time already.]]> Shot 13 autos with the red headed grandson over the weekend . We’re using the composite blades I’ve been running for last few years. We’re playing with negative pitch settings, rotor speeds in the steady state, flare height, and airspeeds to name a few things we are testing. Started some at 400 ft. all the way up to 1000 ft, with some doing a left turn after chopping power. He’s becoming very comfortable with the entry and then making changes during the steady state to get a good end result. I’d post some video here , but I have no idea how to do that here. He showed me how to do that on FB, but we never got around to that here. As I said this is the only place I can find to even start a thread, let alone post a video!
And what the hell is all this subscribe stuff???

---

Patience wearing very thin. Tried to post more stuff to discussion. No good. Quitting for now Wasted too much time already.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-210.html Sat, 22 Aug 2026 10:42:22 -0500 Orv Neisingh]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-210.html

To Flight Raining at Rotorway where I was the first student to complete all three phases of flight and maintenance training at the factory flight school.



To earning my CFI




To instructing up to three students in their Rotorway’s at the same time




To purchasing a new R22 Beta ll





To flying Medevac helicopters.



To even being on the Deisel Brothers TV Show



To teaching Dave Sparks (Heavy D) to fly his new Bell Jet Ranger







]]>

To Flight Raining at Rotorway where I was the first student to complete all three phases of flight and maintenance training at the factory flight school.



To earning my CFI




To instructing up to three students in their Rotorway’s at the same time




To purchasing a new R22 Beta ll





To flying Medevac helicopters.



To even being on the Deisel Brothers TV Show



To teaching Dave Sparks (Heavy D) to fly his new Bell Jet Ranger







]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-208.html Thu, 20 Aug 2026 17:09:33 -0500 CM Lincoln]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-208.html https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-201.html Tue, 18 Aug 2026 09:27:55 -0500 Orv Neisingh]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-201.html
He then related how he had done his first actual solo night cross country flight just a few days prior. He had been in St. Louis on business and by the time he was ready to fire up his helicopter and leave the airport it was dark. There was a slight mist falling but he could see well enough. His flight would be a distance of around 200 miles at night with overcast skies and light drizzle. The direct route that he chose took him over a very large and mountainous wilderness area of the Mark Twain National Forest where any lights were few and far between. The sky was obscured but he had found enough ground lights that allowed him to maintain visual reference with the ground.

I was perplexed by Jim’s seeming lack of judgment in conducting that flight in the conditions that existed, i.e: night time, after a long and tiring day, overcast skies, mist and drizzle, and over a remote area with very few ground lights that are critical to maintaining attitude awareness. Jim's helicopter was not equipped with gyro instruments so night flight in those conditions was very risky. Jim had a classic case of “get-home-it is” which has often proven fatal to those who succumb to it’s temptations.

There is always that temptation to launch out in our machines to get home but sometimes that decision can get us into situations that we are ill equipped to handle and many pilots have paid the ultimate price for making it. Jim seemed emboldened by the experience of successfully making it home under those conditions. He felt that his piloting skills were to such a caliber that such flights should be no problem now or in the future. There is an old adage that applies as much today as it did many years ago when I first heard it: “There are OLD pilots and there are BOLD pilots, but there are very few OLD-BOLD pilots”. Jim has been flying helicopters for about 2 years now and seems to feel a bit of invincibility due to his piloting skills. His flying skills may be quite good but I sometimes question his decision making.

After our conversation at the airport Jim and his passenger got into the Hughes and headed north. My student and I decided that it was time to put the helicopter up as the conditions were deteriorating. Within 5 minutes Jim had turned around and returned to the airport stating that he just could not see more that a few hundred yards in front of him and was forced to fly lower than he felt was safe.

Several months later my wife and I were watching the lightning strikes from thunderstorms in our area. The wind was blowing and it was raining heavily. We noticed that our landing, approach and wind sock lights turned on. They are radio controlled by 122.9 and I figured it was just reacting to electromagnetic interference from the electrical storm. Soon we heard a helicopter and I asked my wife "who in their right mind would be flying in this weather?". Soon we saw landing lights, a strobe light and nave lights on approach to our helipad. It was Jim returning from St. Louis again at night in a thunderstorm. He was lucky that he made it as far as he did. 

After a good scolding from this old flight instructor, we put his helicopter into the hangar and loaned him a vehicle to continue to his home. Jim again had demonstrated very poor judgement but he again survived. 

A few years later I was notified that Jim was flying with a passenger at low altitude and had struck power lines causing them to crash and burn. That attitude of being invincible had caught up with Jim and his wife was now a widow. 

Every one of us that flies helicopters, whether experimental or certified, will be at some point be faced with the decision of “should I go or not?” If you answer that question with “I am pretty sure that I can make it” it most likely would be safest to stay on the ground. Which is safer? To be on the ground wishing you were in the air, or to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.

When I flew Medevac helicopters it was the pilot's decision as to whether it was safe to conduct a flight. I always leaned on the cautious side and lived to fly another day. 

No Matter which helicopter you are planning on flying, avail yourself of the many avenues of flight training that are available to you. There are instructors that will come to you and instruct you in your own helicopter, helicopter flight schools that you can attend, and articles such as this one in which you can learn from the experiences of others.

I encourage every one of you to look up the NTSB accident database online at http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and read about the many helicopter accidents and their causes. The vast majority of those accidents were caused by pilot error and many of those involved CFI’s with students who are not as prepared as they should be for the situations that they find themselves in. There are some very good Certified Flight Instructors out there and there are some that are less than adequate for you needs. Get references from recent students that the CFI has trained to insure that the money that you are investing is well spent. Good training is going to cost you something, be sure that you are getting what you are paying for.
Getting the best training that you can find is the cheapest insurance that you can buy.]]>
He then related how he had done his first actual solo night cross country flight just a few days prior. He had been in St. Louis on business and by the time he was ready to fire up his helicopter and leave the airport it was dark. There was a slight mist falling but he could see well enough. His flight would be a distance of around 200 miles at night with overcast skies and light drizzle. The direct route that he chose took him over a very large and mountainous wilderness area of the Mark Twain National Forest where any lights were few and far between. The sky was obscured but he had found enough ground lights that allowed him to maintain visual reference with the ground.

I was perplexed by Jim’s seeming lack of judgment in conducting that flight in the conditions that existed, i.e: night time, after a long and tiring day, overcast skies, mist and drizzle, and over a remote area with very few ground lights that are critical to maintaining attitude awareness. Jim's helicopter was not equipped with gyro instruments so night flight in those conditions was very risky. Jim had a classic case of “get-home-it is” which has often proven fatal to those who succumb to it’s temptations.

There is always that temptation to launch out in our machines to get home but sometimes that decision can get us into situations that we are ill equipped to handle and many pilots have paid the ultimate price for making it. Jim seemed emboldened by the experience of successfully making it home under those conditions. He felt that his piloting skills were to such a caliber that such flights should be no problem now or in the future. There is an old adage that applies as much today as it did many years ago when I first heard it: “There are OLD pilots and there are BOLD pilots, but there are very few OLD-BOLD pilots”. Jim has been flying helicopters for about 2 years now and seems to feel a bit of invincibility due to his piloting skills. His flying skills may be quite good but I sometimes question his decision making.

After our conversation at the airport Jim and his passenger got into the Hughes and headed north. My student and I decided that it was time to put the helicopter up as the conditions were deteriorating. Within 5 minutes Jim had turned around and returned to the airport stating that he just could not see more that a few hundred yards in front of him and was forced to fly lower than he felt was safe.

Several months later my wife and I were watching the lightning strikes from thunderstorms in our area. The wind was blowing and it was raining heavily. We noticed that our landing, approach and wind sock lights turned on. They are radio controlled by 122.9 and I figured it was just reacting to electromagnetic interference from the electrical storm. Soon we heard a helicopter and I asked my wife "who in their right mind would be flying in this weather?". Soon we saw landing lights, a strobe light and nave lights on approach to our helipad. It was Jim returning from St. Louis again at night in a thunderstorm. He was lucky that he made it as far as he did. 

After a good scolding from this old flight instructor, we put his helicopter into the hangar and loaned him a vehicle to continue to his home. Jim again had demonstrated very poor judgement but he again survived. 

A few years later I was notified that Jim was flying with a passenger at low altitude and had struck power lines causing them to crash and burn. That attitude of being invincible had caught up with Jim and his wife was now a widow. 

Every one of us that flies helicopters, whether experimental or certified, will be at some point be faced with the decision of “should I go or not?” If you answer that question with “I am pretty sure that I can make it” it most likely would be safest to stay on the ground. Which is safer? To be on the ground wishing you were in the air, or to be in the air wishing you were on the ground.

When I flew Medevac helicopters it was the pilot's decision as to whether it was safe to conduct a flight. I always leaned on the cautious side and lived to fly another day. 

No Matter which helicopter you are planning on flying, avail yourself of the many avenues of flight training that are available to you. There are instructors that will come to you and instruct you in your own helicopter, helicopter flight schools that you can attend, and articles such as this one in which you can learn from the experiences of others.

I encourage every one of you to look up the NTSB accident database online at http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp and read about the many helicopter accidents and their causes. The vast majority of those accidents were caused by pilot error and many of those involved CFI’s with students who are not as prepared as they should be for the situations that they find themselves in. There are some very good Certified Flight Instructors out there and there are some that are less than adequate for you needs. Get references from recent students that the CFI has trained to insure that the money that you are investing is well spent. Good training is going to cost you something, be sure that you are getting what you are paying for.
Getting the best training that you can find is the cheapest insurance that you can buy.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-200.html Mon, 17 Aug 2026 12:53:43 -0500 Orv Neisingh]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-200.html  
Is it unsafe to fly at night? Night flight in helicopters is safe as long as the pilot receives proper training in night helicopter operations and the pilot has the discipline to make intelligent and informed go-no go decisions.

We fly our R22 at night for pleasure and flight training but have several conditions that must be met prior to taking such a flight. The first condition is that the weather report from Flight Service shows NO POSSIBILITY of clouds along the proposed flight path. You notice the statement “no possibility”, not probability. If there is any possibility that clouds could be encountered along our flight route, we do not fly at night. The second condition that is required is that we have adequate ground lights in the area we are planning to flying over. And the third requirement is that we have adequate fuel, flashlights, etc. to make the flight safely.
 
At Homer Bell’s fly in one past summer I was chatting with a group of pilots and at least 2 other helicopter flight instructors about the three fatal accidents involving the R44’s that were flew at night into IMC. I posed the question “what would you do if you are flying at night and suddenly you loose all outside reference due to flying into a cloud?” Every one of them agreed that the proper response would be to immediately execute a 180 degree turn and exit the cloud in the direction from which you entered it.
 
This might be the proper response in a fixed wing airplane but not in a non-instrument certified helicopter. Although most helicopter flight instructors teach that a 180 degree turn is the safe way to get out of a cloud, that decision will most likely be a fatal mistake if the pilot is not current on flying by his instruments. The only way to safely execute a 180 degree turn in a helicopter without outside reference is by the use of the gyroscopic instruments installed in some helicopters. Without a directional gyro and an artificial horizon it would be near impossible to maintain flight for more than a short time.

Airplanes are inherently stable. If you take your hands off the controls of most airplanes, they will continue to fly due to their built in aerodynamic stability. Helicopters are inherently unstable. The only stability in a helicopter is the pilot at the controls. The pilot keeps the helicopter stable by visual reference to cues coming from outside of the cockpit. If the helicopter pilot were to let go of the controls, in only a very few seconds the helicopter would go totally out of control and self destruct. Bearing this in mind, if the helicopter pilot losses his outside visual reference cues, he is unable to keep the helicopter stable.

The better a helicopter pilot is trained in instrument flight in light helicopters like the Rotorway, Safari, Hughes, Robinson, etc, the longer he may be able to keep the helicopter right side up, to a limit, providing the helicopter is equipped with the appropriate gyros. If a pilot of a non-gyro equipped helicopter were to enter a 180 degree turn without outside reference, the helicopter could very quickly go out of control.

Of the 3 fatal accidents that we mentioned above, (all were in heavier R44 4 place helicopters which are more stable than the light helicopters that most of us fly) one pilot was an instrument instructor and another was instrument rated. All on board all three helicopters died.

Recently a student of mine and I made a ferry flight from San Antonio, TX to Missouri in a Hughes 269B that he had just purchased. We decided that this long trip would be a great opportunity for some cross country flight training. The flight was progressing uneventfully and we stopped in Clarksville, Arkansas to refuel for the night portion of the trip. After topping off both tanks and checking our flashlights, we called flight service to check on the weather along our proposed 2 hour leg. Flight service reported that there were no clouds along the route and it looked like it would be a perfect night flight to bring us on our final leg home. My student was enjoying the view of the stars and scattered lights from various towns and ranches on the ground as he piloted the helicopter along our route.
 
About 20 minutes into our night flight we lost all outside visibility without warning. The millions of stars and numerous ground lights just suddenly disappeared from view. Instantly I recalled the three recent fatal accidents involving experienced pilots in their R44 helicopters that flew into IMC at night with fatal results. The Hughes 269 that we were flying did not have any gyro instrumentation. 
 
I have always taught my students “if in doubt, auto out” . Although we never expected to fly into a cloud at night much discussion had been invested on that subject. The decision was made that the best way to stay alive, should one totally loose outside visual reference, would be to immediately enter an auto-rotation descent. While the helicopter is in an autorotation, it is in the most stable flight configuration that it can attain. The up-flow of air through the rotors keeps the rotor system facing up and the helicopter hanging below it until the pilot is able to see the ground and flair. At least it was a plan of action to take should one ever loose outside visibility although up to this point I had never been in a situation to put my theory to the test.

On this particular flight we encountered that very situation. There were no clouds at all predicted along our route of flight. The sky was perfectly clear allowing visibility for miles in the perfectly clear air. When visibility was suddenly lost I immediately lowered the collective to place the helicopter into an auto-rotational descent.

It seemed like we were in that auto for a full minute but it was probably more like 20 seconds. This particular helicopter was not equipped with an artificial horizon or directional gyro. We turned on the landing lights and by focusing on the rotor rpm and the airspeed indicator I was able to keep both within their limits. We both kept a watch outside hoping to see a glimpse of the ground or tops of the trees so that a flare could be made prior to impact.

As we continued to head earthward in a very stable and upright auto-rotation, the smell of wood smoke filled our nostrils. We had flown into a cloud of smoke that flight service did not know would be there. All at once the lower portion of the wind screen filled with numerous ground lights and even more bright orange bands that turned out to be flames from a controlled burn being conducted by the Arkansas Division of Forestry. With outside visual reference restored I added power and collective pitch and we resumed normal powered flight.
 
We realized that we had unwittingly entered a very dangerous situation, one that could have produced fatal results, and yet we had survived. The reason that we did survive was that I had a plan of escape already thought out and decided upon should we enter a cloud at night. When the unexpected finally happened I was able to react immediately.

Once we were clear of the smoke cloud we executed a 180 degree turn, and headed for the nearest airport. We set down, parked the helicopter, borrowed a courtesy car and went into town for a meal and a motel. I was convinced that we both had experienced enough night flight for that particular evening.

The next day we got up early, had a great breakfast at the local diner, and then returned the courtesy car and headed home. When we got to the area where we had encountered that killer smoke cloud, I looked down at the rough terrain below us and thanked God that we were not the subject of a Civil Air Patrol search for missing red and white helicopter. I am now convinced more than ever before that if I ever again loose outside visual reference (I don’t plan on it ever happening again!) I will once again immediately enter an autorotation and live to tell about it.

Refer back to the question that I posed to the CFI’s and pilots at Homer’s that year: “what would you do if you are flying at night and suddenly you loose all outside reference due to flying into a cloud?” Their unanimous answer was to immediately execute a 180 degree turn to fly out the way they came in. What would you do?

Years later Jim had started a helicopter tour business in Branson, MO and he used his trusty 269 to do power line patrols for the local utility company. I warned him to keep a sharp eye out due to the danger of flying low and slow over those wires. One morning while flying with a power company observer along a set of high power lines, they did not see a set of another companies power lines that crossed over those they were inspecting. They flew directly into the crossing lines and were killed instantly. Caution and awareness are always the rules for every flight.]]>  
Is it unsafe to fly at night? Night flight in helicopters is safe as long as the pilot receives proper training in night helicopter operations and the pilot has the discipline to make intelligent and informed go-no go decisions.

We fly our R22 at night for pleasure and flight training but have several conditions that must be met prior to taking such a flight. The first condition is that the weather report from Flight Service shows NO POSSIBILITY of clouds along the proposed flight path. You notice the statement “no possibility”, not probability. If there is any possibility that clouds could be encountered along our flight route, we do not fly at night. The second condition that is required is that we have adequate ground lights in the area we are planning to flying over. And the third requirement is that we have adequate fuel, flashlights, etc. to make the flight safely.
 
At Homer Bell’s fly in one past summer I was chatting with a group of pilots and at least 2 other helicopter flight instructors about the three fatal accidents involving the R44’s that were flew at night into IMC. I posed the question “what would you do if you are flying at night and suddenly you loose all outside reference due to flying into a cloud?” Every one of them agreed that the proper response would be to immediately execute a 180 degree turn and exit the cloud in the direction from which you entered it.
 
This might be the proper response in a fixed wing airplane but not in a non-instrument certified helicopter. Although most helicopter flight instructors teach that a 180 degree turn is the safe way to get out of a cloud, that decision will most likely be a fatal mistake if the pilot is not current on flying by his instruments. The only way to safely execute a 180 degree turn in a helicopter without outside reference is by the use of the gyroscopic instruments installed in some helicopters. Without a directional gyro and an artificial horizon it would be near impossible to maintain flight for more than a short time.

Airplanes are inherently stable. If you take your hands off the controls of most airplanes, they will continue to fly due to their built in aerodynamic stability. Helicopters are inherently unstable. The only stability in a helicopter is the pilot at the controls. The pilot keeps the helicopter stable by visual reference to cues coming from outside of the cockpit. If the helicopter pilot were to let go of the controls, in only a very few seconds the helicopter would go totally out of control and self destruct. Bearing this in mind, if the helicopter pilot losses his outside visual reference cues, he is unable to keep the helicopter stable.

The better a helicopter pilot is trained in instrument flight in light helicopters like the Rotorway, Safari, Hughes, Robinson, etc, the longer he may be able to keep the helicopter right side up, to a limit, providing the helicopter is equipped with the appropriate gyros. If a pilot of a non-gyro equipped helicopter were to enter a 180 degree turn without outside reference, the helicopter could very quickly go out of control.

Of the 3 fatal accidents that we mentioned above, (all were in heavier R44 4 place helicopters which are more stable than the light helicopters that most of us fly) one pilot was an instrument instructor and another was instrument rated. All on board all three helicopters died.

Recently a student of mine and I made a ferry flight from San Antonio, TX to Missouri in a Hughes 269B that he had just purchased. We decided that this long trip would be a great opportunity for some cross country flight training. The flight was progressing uneventfully and we stopped in Clarksville, Arkansas to refuel for the night portion of the trip. After topping off both tanks and checking our flashlights, we called flight service to check on the weather along our proposed 2 hour leg. Flight service reported that there were no clouds along the route and it looked like it would be a perfect night flight to bring us on our final leg home. My student was enjoying the view of the stars and scattered lights from various towns and ranches on the ground as he piloted the helicopter along our route.
 
About 20 minutes into our night flight we lost all outside visibility without warning. The millions of stars and numerous ground lights just suddenly disappeared from view. Instantly I recalled the three recent fatal accidents involving experienced pilots in their R44 helicopters that flew into IMC at night with fatal results. The Hughes 269 that we were flying did not have any gyro instrumentation. 
 
I have always taught my students “if in doubt, auto out” . Although we never expected to fly into a cloud at night much discussion had been invested on that subject. The decision was made that the best way to stay alive, should one totally loose outside visual reference, would be to immediately enter an auto-rotation descent. While the helicopter is in an autorotation, it is in the most stable flight configuration that it can attain. The up-flow of air through the rotors keeps the rotor system facing up and the helicopter hanging below it until the pilot is able to see the ground and flair. At least it was a plan of action to take should one ever loose outside visibility although up to this point I had never been in a situation to put my theory to the test.

On this particular flight we encountered that very situation. There were no clouds at all predicted along our route of flight. The sky was perfectly clear allowing visibility for miles in the perfectly clear air. When visibility was suddenly lost I immediately lowered the collective to place the helicopter into an auto-rotational descent.

It seemed like we were in that auto for a full minute but it was probably more like 20 seconds. This particular helicopter was not equipped with an artificial horizon or directional gyro. We turned on the landing lights and by focusing on the rotor rpm and the airspeed indicator I was able to keep both within their limits. We both kept a watch outside hoping to see a glimpse of the ground or tops of the trees so that a flare could be made prior to impact.

As we continued to head earthward in a very stable and upright auto-rotation, the smell of wood smoke filled our nostrils. We had flown into a cloud of smoke that flight service did not know would be there. All at once the lower portion of the wind screen filled with numerous ground lights and even more bright orange bands that turned out to be flames from a controlled burn being conducted by the Arkansas Division of Forestry. With outside visual reference restored I added power and collective pitch and we resumed normal powered flight.
 
We realized that we had unwittingly entered a very dangerous situation, one that could have produced fatal results, and yet we had survived. The reason that we did survive was that I had a plan of escape already thought out and decided upon should we enter a cloud at night. When the unexpected finally happened I was able to react immediately.

Once we were clear of the smoke cloud we executed a 180 degree turn, and headed for the nearest airport. We set down, parked the helicopter, borrowed a courtesy car and went into town for a meal and a motel. I was convinced that we both had experienced enough night flight for that particular evening.

The next day we got up early, had a great breakfast at the local diner, and then returned the courtesy car and headed home. When we got to the area where we had encountered that killer smoke cloud, I looked down at the rough terrain below us and thanked God that we were not the subject of a Civil Air Patrol search for missing red and white helicopter. I am now convinced more than ever before that if I ever again loose outside visual reference (I don’t plan on it ever happening again!) I will once again immediately enter an autorotation and live to tell about it.

Refer back to the question that I posed to the CFI’s and pilots at Homer’s that year: “what would you do if you are flying at night and suddenly you loose all outside reference due to flying into a cloud?” Their unanimous answer was to immediately execute a 180 degree turn to fly out the way they came in. What would you do?

Years later Jim had started a helicopter tour business in Branson, MO and he used his trusty 269 to do power line patrols for the local utility company. I warned him to keep a sharp eye out due to the danger of flying low and slow over those wires. One morning while flying with a power company observer along a set of high power lines, they did not see a set of another companies power lines that crossed over those they were inspecting. They flew directly into the crossing lines and were killed instantly. Caution and awareness are always the rules for every flight.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-194.html Sat, 15 Aug 2026 21:57:46 -0500 Graeme Smith]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-194.html

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]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-190.html Sat, 15 Aug 2026 11:15:32 -0500 Geno Mancini]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-190.html It would be a shame to just let all that information go away.
This forum would "take off" if that information was available here!]]> It would be a shame to just let all that information go away.
This forum would "take off" if that information was available here!]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-188.html Sat, 15 Aug 2026 08:09:27 -0500 Orv Neisingh]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-188.html

Above is a photo of what I observed on a students 162F when I arrived to give it the condition inspection prior to beginning his flight training. This owner had recently purchased the helicopter without a pre-purchase inspection and there were so many things wrong with it mechanically that it took a week of working on it to get it airworthy. At $1200 per day for my time, it cost him $8400 plus my travel and lodging just to get the ship ready for flight training. If he had hired someone knowledgeable like Homer or myself to do the pre-purchase inspection, he would have known the condition of the helicopter and could have factored that into the purchase price. 

I have an idea of why the previous owner bent the rod end on the top of the collective control rod, but it was bent and un-airworthy. It was replaced with a new one along with other needed replacement parts that Robin sent to us overnight. From the photo it is obvious that the passenger side of the doghouse was positioned too close to the collective controls during the body alignment. The doghouse lip prevented the collective control rod and rod end to align with the collective fork lever so the builder simply bent the rod end shank to get a better angle as well as hacked away the fiberglass on the doghouse. 

Bending the rod den shank like that can introduce stress cracks leading to eventual break and separation. Imagine what the rotor system on that helicopter would have done had the helicopter been flown and that rod end broke allowing the main rotor blades to go to full pitch and stay there until they stalled. That would have been another lawn dart story for us to learn by.  

You can also see where the doghouse was cut, the raw edge of the fiberglass is rubbing on the soft aluminum control rod. IF that was the only issue, and it is not, the fiberglass would erode the aluminum tube at the contact point weakening it and that eventually could have caused another disaster in flight. 

The hack job on the dog house lip fiberglass is just one indication of the overall build quality of the entire helicopter. There are some really great builds out there and then there are horrible builds that can get someone killed if they try to fly them.]]>

Above is a photo of what I observed on a students 162F when I arrived to give it the condition inspection prior to beginning his flight training. This owner had recently purchased the helicopter without a pre-purchase inspection and there were so many things wrong with it mechanically that it took a week of working on it to get it airworthy. At $1200 per day for my time, it cost him $8400 plus my travel and lodging just to get the ship ready for flight training. If he had hired someone knowledgeable like Homer or myself to do the pre-purchase inspection, he would have known the condition of the helicopter and could have factored that into the purchase price. 

I have an idea of why the previous owner bent the rod end on the top of the collective control rod, but it was bent and un-airworthy. It was replaced with a new one along with other needed replacement parts that Robin sent to us overnight. From the photo it is obvious that the passenger side of the doghouse was positioned too close to the collective controls during the body alignment. The doghouse lip prevented the collective control rod and rod end to align with the collective fork lever so the builder simply bent the rod end shank to get a better angle as well as hacked away the fiberglass on the doghouse. 

Bending the rod den shank like that can introduce stress cracks leading to eventual break and separation. Imagine what the rotor system on that helicopter would have done had the helicopter been flown and that rod end broke allowing the main rotor blades to go to full pitch and stay there until they stalled. That would have been another lawn dart story for us to learn by.  

You can also see where the doghouse was cut, the raw edge of the fiberglass is rubbing on the soft aluminum control rod. IF that was the only issue, and it is not, the fiberglass would erode the aluminum tube at the contact point weakening it and that eventually could have caused another disaster in flight. 

The hack job on the dog house lip fiberglass is just one indication of the overall build quality of the entire helicopter. There are some really great builds out there and then there are horrible builds that can get someone killed if they try to fly them.]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-182.html Thu, 13 Aug 2026 15:37:31 -0500 Paul Berg]]> https://rotorwayforums.com/thread-182.html