[Orv Neisingh]

Those that have been around Rotorways for a while will have noticed that many ships have reversed the front landing gear and then extended and reinforced the skids. About 25 years ago Greg Anderson hired me to travel to Rapid City, SD to go over his new kit and to make recommendations as to what improvements I would make to the kit if it was my own. The Rotorway community had lost a number of helicopters due to rolling over during emergency or precautionary run-on landings. The first change that I suggested was to improve the helicopters ability to perform a run-on landing without the helicopter experiencing a dynamic rollover. Today most 162f gear and several Talon gear have incorporated this modification which allows a much more robust support for that one time that you need to slide it in. You can read the full story and view photos of the mod by clicking the green button at the top of the page, go to Hints and Tips, then Landing gear. Happy and safe flying.

[Lyle Swallows]

i did make new skid tubes for my ship, extending them, sleeving them, and using 2024-t3 vs the 6061.

but the front hoop reversal i held off on doing purely for aesthetics... i did sleeve past the front hoops. just hoping this is enough to prevent nosing over, nothings more important than losing that forward energy in the flare during an auto from what it sounds like.

[Orv Neisingh]

Got that right. As long as your front portion of the shoes have a steel tube insert that extends back past the front gear leg so that both bolts secure them you will be good. Also be sure to install steel skid shoes.

[Homer Bell]

My opinion is that most autos fail because they land on their heels first and then rock hard forward up on the nose. They do this trying to bleed off the last few mph of forward speed.
Touch down needs to be near flat even if you have some forward speed. If you come in too fast, you’re going to have to slide it on.
I’ve always said, tell me how I’m going to crash, and then I’ll decide which kind of gear do I want!!

[Shane Sr]

Hello, everyone,
That’s interestingI’ve already noticed modified (or “reversed”) nose gear configurations on some light aircraft at European air shows, though I haven’t always been able to clearly understand their functional purpose. Based on the photo in your first post, this seems primarily to alter the ground geometry and the position of the nose wheel’s contact point, with possible implications for taxiing stability and turning behavior, rather than creating a “nose-down attitude” per se. As an engineer , the first thing I would look at is still the weight and balance. Not because the landing gear position would alter the center of gravity itself, but because it directly influences the stability margins relative to that center of gravity. With this in mind, did you weigh the aircraft again after the modification to verify that you are still within the weight and balance (W&B) envelope defined by the manufacturer? I’m drawing an analogy here with tricycle-landing-gear aircraftof course, on the Rotorway A600 or other skid-equipped helicopters, the issue is different since the aircraft rests on skids rather than wheels. From a regulatory standpoint, I also have some questions: depending on the authorities and the classification of the modification, this type of change (which could potentially affect ground geometry and handling) may require a technical reassessment and, if necessary, a dedicated flight test program. In Ireland, for example, the IAA generally pays close attention to any modification that could affect flight characteristics or safety margins, taking a case-by-case approach. I am certainly not questioning the modification itself I simply want to better understand the technical and administrative implications.
Thank you in advance for your insights.

[Orv Neisingh]

Translation to English?

[Tim Morris]

Translation: It's interesting to note that I've already seen modified (or "reversed") nose landing gear configurations on some light aircraft at European airshows, although I haven't always fully understood their purpose. From the photo in your first message, it seems that this primarily alters the ground geometry and the position of the nose wheel's contact patch, which can affect taxiing stability and turning behavior, rather than creating a nose-down attitude per se. As an engineer, I would first look at the center of gravity. Not because the landing gear configuration itself changes the center of gravity, but because it directly influences the stability margins around that center. With this in mind, did you reweigh the aircraft after the modification to verify that you're still within the manufacturer's specified center of gravity limits? I'm drawing an analogy here with aircraft that have tricycle landing gear. Of course, on the Rotorway A600 or other helicopters equipped with skids, the situation is different since the aircraft rests on skids and not wheels. From a regulatory standpoint, I also have some questions: depending on the relevant authorities and the classification of the modification, this type of change (which could affect ground geometry and maneuverability) may require a technical reassessment and, if necessary, a dedicated flight test program. In Ireland, for example, the IAA (Irish Civil Aviation Authority) generally carefully examines any modification that could affect flight characteristics or safety margins, proceeding on a case-by-case basis. I am not questioning the modification itself at all; I simply want to better understand its technical and administrative implications. Thank you in advance for your clarification.

[Tim Morris]

I reversed mine and I did re-do weight and balance.  The forward ballast position does change.  Everything is still within CG range.
When you envision a run-on landing especially on grass or dirt, the weight moment is going to stand you up on your nose as you decelerate.  Everything being equal, I would rather have the rotation point as far forward as I can.

[Brad Lenart]

My opinion is that most autos fail because they land on their heels first and then rock hard forward up on the nose. They do this trying to bleed off the last few mph of forward speed.
Touch down needs to be near flat even if you have some forward speed. If you come in too fast, you’re going to have to slide it on.
I’ve always said, tell me how I’m going to crash, and then I’ll decide which kind of gear do I want!!

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My instructor always said, in your mind keep thinking, "Make it stop, make it stop," then lower collective. Yes, it's very important to be fully stopped in the air before making a full down autorotation.

[Orv Neisingh]

Yes the goal is to make it stop as much forward motion as possible during the flare before settling onto the surface then pull the collective to cushion your landing. You do not want to stop up in the air and then lower your collective, I know someone who did that during flight training and almost got his flight instructor and himself killed Brad.

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The correct procedure for an auto is to first immediately fully lower the collective when you sense something is wrong, "when in doubt, auto out". Next once established in the auto and rotor RPM is established maintain or increase your airspeed to build inertia for the flare. During the flare I tell myself to "make it stop all forward speed" before leveling and pulling collective to cushion the landing. 

I remember a student that I was instructing many years ago who thought that it would be a good idea to surprise me while doing steep approach training. I had told him to do one more steep approach and then I would demonstrate an autorotation. That particular student decided to instead show me that he could do an auto his way without warning me. At altitude he pulled collective and chopped the throttle, I was not guarding the controls because his flying was very good up until that point. 

I was able to wrestle the collective and throttle out of his hands and with full throttle applied, and full down collective, the helicopter shook and shuddered at the edge of rotor stall all the way down to around 100' AGL at which point I regained enough RPM and cyclic authority and was able to flare and set the helicopter down. From that day on I have never flown with a student without my hands and feet guarding the controls from surprise inputs from the student. That was a valuable lesson for me as a new flight instructor Brad.